Narelle here. I’m delighted to welcome Jamie Ogle to our blog today and share an interview about her new book, As Sure as the Sea, that’s releasing on February 11, 2025.
How did you decide on the title, As Sure as the Sea?
This book was originally called A Determined Hope, which sort of fit, but I didn’t totally love it. After I’d finished the book, my editors and I discussed some ideas and landed on As Sure as the Sea. We loved how in the beginning of the book, Demi finds her peace in the sea—a place a lot of us might think of as changing and dangerous—but toward the end, she finds her peace firmly anchored in the Maker of the seas.
This is your second book. What have you learned about the writing and/or publishing process over the last two book launches?
This book was the most difficult thing I’ve ever written. It was the first time I had to write a full novel under a deadline and that was a lot of new pressure in itself, but I wasn’t expecting all the other fears and pressures that came along with it. Of Love and Treason had been pretty well received up to that point, so as I was trying to write, I was struggling with the fear and worry that this new story wouldn’t be nearly as good and I would let everyone down.
I’m learning both to do my best, but also to rest in the knowledge that God has called me to do this and He will guide and equip me for it. It’s a daily journey of trust and surrender.
While you typically consider yourself a plotter, this story caught you by surprise. What was the writing process like for this book?
I started this story with a pretty firm idea of what I thought it was going to be about, who the characters were, and where the story would end, but as soon as I started writing, the story grew legs of its own and started racing in a direction that terrified me. It felt too big and too dark, and I didn’t want to go there. I tried so hard to wrestle it back into a place where I felt more comfortable, and that resulted in a very messy story (and then add in all those fears and pressures I mentioned before), and I wasn’t sure I knew how to write anymore. That this story is here, in its current state, is a testament to God taking me by the hand and drawing me into the dark, scary places of this story to illuminate them with hope and truth. I could not have done this on my own.
How might the depiction of Saint Nikolas in this novel subvert readers’ expectations?
When we hear Saint Nikolas, a lot of us probably picture a jolly man in red, surrounded by reindeer and mounds of snow. The fact that he lived on some of the most beautiful beaches in the world during the worst persecution in Christian history doesn’t sound quite so jolly. But it was such a fascinating and powerful story to research, especially when his famous generosity is placed against the backdrop of such violence and danger. All of a sudden he’s not just some nice guy, giving out of his excess, he’s a man of insane courage and faith, doing everything he can to protect and provide for the people around him—both inside the church and out—and putting his own life at risk to do so.
What was your research process like for this story?
As I did in my last book, I started with the legends of Saint Nikolas of Myra. I had to untangle his story from that of another Saint Nicholas of Sion who lived some 200 years later. Their stories were melded together over time, creating a sort of “super” Saint Nicholas. Once I knew which stories I was working with, I researched what was happening in the world around him and wove the two together with fiction. This makes the process sound a lot easier and smoother than it was—there was a lot of rewriting involved.
Who was your favorite character to explore?
Nikolas was fascinating. Before researching, I used to think of him as a boisterous, larger- than-life character, but looking at his stories, I found a rather quiet man who seemed more concerned with living the gospel and “doing,” rather than talking about it or leaving any written records. (The fact that he got in trouble as an 80-year-old man for dealing with heresy with his fists rather than words, really seems to confirm this for me.) I loved digging into and imagining the possible backstories that motivated his dangerous and courageous generosity.
How can stories of the early church encourage and challenge modern-day believers and readers of this story?
It’s easy to look back on the people of the early church and place them on pedestals, thinking they had super-strong faith and had it all together, when they were just as human as we are, with the same fears and failings. The good news running through all of history is that no matter the historical era or circumstances, we Christians serve the same God who is faithful to forgive and guide us into a right relationship with Him. I was particularly convicted about how easy it is to get caught up in the “rules” and to think that following the rules equals relationship with God, when in fact, it’s our relationship with God that brings us to the place where we want to follow and obey. It’s an important distinction, and one my characters wrestle with in the book.
What advice would you give to other aspiring writers in the fiction space?
It’s so important to establish early on why you’re writing in the first place, and to know for certain that God wants you to do it. Because writing doesn’t get easier once you have an agent, or contract, or book in the world (I mistakenly thought it would). The process of obedience, trust, and surrender is ongoing—as are the fears and pressures. We can’t do this alone, and I’m so grateful for the encouraging friendships and community of other Christian writers.
How do you hope the themes of this story will resonate with readers beyond the page?
I never set out trying to write about a certain theme. As I write and explore each story, God brings a specific theme to the forefront—and every time it’s been something I’ve needed to hear and be reminded of. This time, the theme that stood out is that no sin is too great for God to forgive. That if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us. We don’t have to continue living with the guilt and shame of our mistakes hanging over our heads, or feel as though we have to do a certain number of good things to earn our way back into God’s love or favor. There is no possible way we could. His grace is free, and that’s really difficult to fathom, but so, so important. I’m not saying we should do whatever we want because God is gracious and loving, but that we should obey Him from a place of love, not out of guilt and shame.
You’ve written about Saint Valentine and now Saint Nikolas. Are there any other historical figures whose stories you’re drawn to?
I’m keeping an ever-growing list of story possibilities. My favorite thing is when people come up to me and say, “Have you heard the story of….” and then go on to tell me about some historical figure in Church History. That’s actually how I got the idea for the story I’m working on now, which is about a female gladiator who is forced to fight in the last gladiator games in Rome.
Once she denied everything she believed in. Now she’d give anything to choose differently. But in the shadow of the Roman Empire’s persecution and the shame of her past, she fears that what she wants most will be forever out of reach.
Eastern Roman Empire, AD 310. In the shadow of Emperor Diocletian’s anti-Christian edicts, Demitria makes a meager living harvesting coral and pearls for a merchant who turns a blind eye to her faith. By night, Demi goes upriver with her brother, Theseus, to obtain provisions for fellow believers in the port city of Myra. While willing to risk her own life to ensure others are safe and fed, Demi lives with a desperate fear for those she loves and carries secret shame over her greatest failure. When Theseus is injured in a diving accident, all seems lost, until a stranger named Nikolas appears on the beach and offers help.
Arriving in a sinking boat, Nikolas is burdened by guilt over his older brother’s tragic death. Though the wealth he inherited from a prosperous shipping business now rests at the bottom of the sea, as the new pastor in Myra, he is determined to recover it and use it for good. As the violence against Christians increases, Demi helps Nikolas retrieve his lost fortune and distribute it to those in dire need.
Despite wondering if she can ever be worthy, Demi is drawn to Nikolas and longs to trust in his belief that freedom can be found in forgiveness. Then one terrifying night, everything changes as the Roman Empire’s fury rains down. Demi has no other choice but to decide if she has the courage to do what she once failed to . . . and if the faith she calls her own is sure enough to carry her.
Buy As Sure as the Sea from Tyndale.
Jamie Ogle is a pre-dawn writer, homeschool mom by day, and a reader by night. Inspired by her fascination with the storied history of faith, she writes historical fiction infused with hope, adventure, and courageous rebels. A Minnesota native, she now lives in Iowa with her husband and their three children, and she can usually be found gardening, beekeeping, and tromping through the woods. Learn more about Jamie at jamieogle.com.
Thank you so much for sharing. This was a real blessing to me. (Having trouble seeing the keyboard through my tears). I needed this today. Thank you
Hi Dienece, You’re welcome and I loved her interview. I appreciated Jamie’s words of encouragement for writers. 😊